Possibility to exceed sv_maxspeed by various techniques

[Spike]

[Spirit]

[Orion]

[Urre]

Spirit said it, really. It all comes down to the game/mod/TC and the developer of said software. Seeing as id never fixed these "issues", and even let them exist in at least two of their future games, makes it most definitely a feature in Quake.

Let that sink in for a moment...



Now, if you want to remove it for your game, just do it, if you think it works better for your game. Just don't come claiming it doesn't have a place in games overall.

When it comes to existing games/mods/TC's having bunnyhopping where it "doesn't fit", I'd just say it's sad that the developers didn't do anything about it, seeing as it's not very hard. Perhaps they simply didn't think about it, and the technique wasn't developed at the time, and once they stopped working on the game, the technique was discovered and thus it would exist in the game for all eternity.

This was in fact the case of many a Quake gameplay quirk/feature/bug. Take the rocketjump for example. id used to consider it a bug, and even removed the ability, making testers furious, and thus they put it back in, and simply reconsidered their game. Dynamic game design in the works.

Now, to some this might seem harmless and perhaps even fate, while to others it might seem disasterous. Although, believe me, there are so many worse examples. Let's have a look at Starcraft. Playing SC online used to mean diverse matches on all kinds of maps. Soon, favorites were found, and it became harder to find other maps to play. Later, hackers (one might say modders, but SC modders have much more in common with hackers. I've done SC hacking, in case anyone wonders) figured out ways to exploit and get around the limits forced by the game. Maps which allowed mineral fields being placed with 0 distance from the start location and on top of eachother started popping up, allowing insane mineral income, essentially ruining the way the game used to play. Last time I tried playing a public SC game on Battle.net, I couldn't find any other maps but these. It's been like this for atleast five years. Talk about messing up a game. There are obviously other channels to go through to find "proper" SC matches, but that wasn't my point. I've got other good examples, but I'll leave them out.

Now, where does one draw the line? In practice, you usually can't do anything about it, unless you're the developer. In extreme cases you can't do anything as a developer either, unless you hire moderators. As a player you're forced to only playing with your friends, or finding/starting purist communities. These sort of things generally work out well.

Don't force your opinion down other peoples throats, it usually doesn't work. Now, in the individual case of TF, sure, I can agree on bunnyhopping making the game worse there, so if there are servers which have removed this ability out there, I'd choose those. On the other hand, I want my bunny in vanilla and CTF. And this is just my opinion.

[Supa]

[Electro]

[Baker]

[Wazat]

Electro: It's the bunnyhopping worshipers that started a religion, not us.



In regards to the whole discussion/flame war, I still think my original point stands: Bunnyhopping is a bug. It is a beloved bug by much of the Quake community and shouldn't be unanimously taken from them, but it is also a huge problem for some mods. TF, for example, but also some of the mods I've done. In one, the player is meant to be slow and have to use his weapons to push demons back as he moves toward the goal. The second I learned bunnyhopping was short-circuting the gameplay and that my fix wasn't actually working, the mod became useless. This sort of thing is only really reliably done in the engine, and I got sick of trying to fix the damn thing in QC.

The solution is to add a simple cvar to popular engines so that the server and/or (preferably) the mod can determine whether bunnyhopping is appropriate. In some servers and mods bunnyhopping is appropriate, or even (according to the players) blasphemy to remove. In other servers and mods, it is absolutely not appropriate and destroys gameplay, and the modder needs the right to turn it off easily and effectively without a lot of client-side prediction crunching.

So what's so obscene about adding a cvar?

[Baker]

[Wazat]

[Spike]

rocketjumping is an obvious mechanic, so is not imho cheating in any way. id were fully aware of it, and e3m6 I think requires a grenadejump to get to a secret, or something.

ramp jumping, just jump down the ramp on e1m1 and you'll be going nice and fast... do it once and you'll think 'WHOA'. again its pretty obvious that it can be done, at least after the first time you did it.

indefinitly accelerating by adjusting your angles and moving perpendicular to motion and stuff... GAH!
not obvious at all.
However, it takes practise. And skill, same as aiming does, same as compensating for lag (yours or your enemies) same as learning the maps, same as learning routes through the maps to get all the items before your oponant can.
this is something which was originally unintended, but due to the fact that it takes skill and practise to move around the maps at such speeds, the fact that you cannot normally accelerate instantly, the fact that you need to turn at different speeds to compensate for the speed you're actually moving at. It adds more to the game than it removes.
Its not like an aimbot. It really does take time and patience to learn how to bunnyhop around maps without loosing your speed. And every map has different passageways.

Much to my annoyance, even framerate changes how easy it is to bunnyhop.


However, I do agree that bunnyhopping in any of its forms can ruin games with sniper rifles, or team objectives that involve getting from one place to another (ie: ctf), or infact any mod where weapons/abilities are balanced against speed of the player.
This of course means it would suck big time in counterstrike.


Small note about bunnyhopping in quakeworld:
The qwsv 2.4 release from id software has a 'bug' in the prediction code. this bug makes you randomly fail to bunnyhop (velocity is sometimes not cleared when you re-jump, meaning -270+270 = 0 = no jump).
This was 'fixed' in zquake first, as far as I know, and thus found its way into the derivatives, including mvdsv. Its a serverside thing. And I call it a bug because it wasn't present in clients, causing prediction glitches.
Its the custom quakeworld servers that actually enabled proper reliable bunnyhopping in quakeworld.

Mods/admins are free to set that cvar if they choose to do so. But for deathmatch mods, it just adds to the gameplay.

Heck, quakedonequick depends upon such bunnyhopping features.

[r00k]

[Baker]

[r00k]

[Wazat]