Is the Quake modding community really this dead?

[Nash]

I've been modding for Doom engines for a long time, and, unsatisfied with the lack of modding capabilities, I decided to try to learn Quake modding.

Although I've started posting here a few days ago, I can tell you that this isn't the first time I tried QuakeC - but the fifth. Yes, back in 2005 I was like "okay I'm gonna learn this stuff" but I gave up due to the lack of documentation on so many important things.

Quake modding is so undocumented in general to the point that newbies can't really do anything even if they have all the tools and source files.

On top of that, Google searches for Quake-modding-related terms are usually fruitless.

I only started learning how to MAKE something happen with QC when I found the Quake wiki at QSG...

I'm slowly getting the hang of QuakeC now but it took me five attempts and two years to figure it out.

In comparison, over at the Doom communities, you have newbies coming in already making mods, new monsters and stuff because every aspect of modding for the engines is so well-documented.

Doom-related forums are full of activity, if you don't read the forum for a day and you check for new posts, you will usually find a long list of forum threads to read. On top of that, there's the usual Doom community drama which is good for your daily lulz consumption.

I decided to register here, quakesrc.org and quakedev.com in search for Quake modding help but after I read some of the forum posts (and looked at the dates) I was almost reluctant to post.

I was afraid to post my questions because I somehow think I am not going to get any replies, the enthuisiasm will be lost because I'm not making the things I want to happen work, and my threads will finally rot in the forum database with zero replies and I'd have long given up yet again.

I guess that's just the way it is... Quake modding is very newbie-unfriendly and that's why I think it feels dead around here (and the other Quake-modding forums).

There are some good tutorials here but it's all copy-paste oriented and I don't really learn anything from that. A better tutorial would be one that explains how QuakeC works, stuff like language structure, etc.

I am sorry for this rant, it's really a newbie rant, I know, "stfu n00b" but I really want to be good at this stuff, but the lack of even basic documentation for so many things has made it really difficult for me to do the stuff I want to do.

I think what really needs to be done is that the wiki has to be heavily edited to accomodate newbies. The pages should take the person by the hand step-by-step. I'm willing to take the task to do the wiki editing (I love wiki editing) but I can't do it with the tiny amount of knowledge I have.

[leileilol]

We're not dead. We're just not spamtacular. There's also little-to-no drama to tune into for episodes, perhaps the most mature modding community of any id-based engine.

We also don't have an attention-grabbing 'encounter' movie either.

The IRC channel is where most of the activity is, though it's mostly offtopic activity. But it's where we're all hiding

[Spirit]

[jim]

[Entar]

[CocoT]

[Orion]

Did you mean: Is the Quake modding community really this alive?
Google about your question.

[Nash]

Orion - How about you Google about MenuQC or Client-Side QC and let me know if you find any results that actually teach you how to code stuff with said subjects?

Please post the results here if you find any. Thanks.

[Sajt]

There is no documentation for Client or Menu QC...

Nobody knows anything about CSQC except maybe Spike. Nobody's working on implementing it engines much AFAIK. DarkPlaces has a CSQC implementation, but I'm not sure that it's actually useable. FTEQW probably has a working implementation but I don't know anything about it.

As for MenuQC, Black wrote that and isn't around much anymore, unless I'm mistaken. It's a beast, though I guess someone could write tutorials for it if they spend enough time browsing through it first...

[ajay]

I should be the poster boy for how friendly (both in terms of newbies and "users") the quake modding community/scene is, as I am as unskilled as I am lazy.
I had (have) very little coding, mapping, modding experience or knowledge but have managed to drag out a number of mods. Yes it took time and effort, but isn't anything more worthwhile when it does?

Cosnidering it's over 10 years old, I think all is pretty alive and kicking, yes it may not be as large as other, newer games, but it's there, it's still developing and it's as imaginative as any.

[Nash]

It's ironic how Doom is a much, much older game than Quake but the mapping and modding community is much more alive.

(including the drama)

[Urre]

Not sure if it's ironic, or what you'd like to call it, but certainly interesting, and it has been discussed in the past, how come Doom which is older and in many ways inferior (engine capabilities, modding friendlyness) has such a much more vibrant community. I personally don't find it that much of a "problem", cause I don't really do the community thing, I just use Quake as a base to make games. Admittedly, I hang a lot on the irc channels, this and another forum, but I guess that's mostly just old habit.

I've always agreed though, that Quake modding as a community is quite stale. Quake mapping is and always has been more alive, and the two for certain reasons rarely mix. I'd love to see information gathered to some central site, or atleast a good link database on an already live site, which has many users. Some have done attempts at starting new sites and communities, with hosting and everything, but those haven't really kicked off, more or less because the community already has its stale ways, they know where to get the info they want, and don't need a centralized source of info.

With that said, there are plenty of sources for info, but they're hard to find. QuakeTerminus is one place with lots of links to tools, hosting dead-but-useful tools, and links to sites containing info. You already mentioned the awesome yet very incomplete Quakesrc wiki. I3D is and always will be the place to post your questions, and there's a good deal of tutorials which aren't entirely copy-paste based. However, I learned most of my stuff from community members, as well as one site in particular, AI Cafe. Even though you might not be interested in AI, Coffee does some magic with his tutorials. Explains a lot about how QC works, and so forth.

What you want to do, if you want to make Quake mods, is follow links all over the place, and post questions, and hang on irc. It's tough, but possible.

When it comes to CSQC and MenuQC, it's no wonder you haven't found any info, considering there really is none, and only a select number of people know how it works. MenuQC I haven't bothered to dive into too deep, since I really didn't know where to start, and I most certainly don't recommend basing your code off Blacks Nexuiz menu, cause that thing is so bloated you have no idea. CSQC isn't that hard if you're only doing what Chris and Dresk are doing, which is more or less HUD drawing. Chris' mouse support in his new game isn't even CSQC, it's a prydoncursor builtin for DarkPlaces, which has world collisions disabled if it hits within inventory bounds (funky stuff, but it works). I've successfully made HUD's with CSQC, and it isn't that hard, as long as you have something to get ideas from or base it on. But once you want to do cooler stuff (what CSQC was initially meant for), like clientside entities, movement prediction, effects and whatnot, that's when it becomes severely tricky. In fact so tricky I more or less attacked everyone involved on irc, because I found the design completely retarded and over-complicated.

One can only hope that someone who has success on these areas will care enough to post info, tutorials, or release code for everyone to see.

Considering how good Quake is as a beginners engine, it's sad how hard it is to get beyond "omg I made the shotgun into a machinegun!".

[jim]

I think id Software should have made the hud and menu stuff with qc... as they're more gamelogic than some engine core stuff... Now quick someone make a time machine and a go back in time and call for Cthulhu (that's 783 40102 6101) to affect id Software's dreams in a way they're constantly suggested they'll make the hud and menu modifying available in qc...

People mod for Doom, because the mapping is so simple and you can make one map in a day...

[redrum]

I'm new to QuakeC, first tried it this year. This site is very helpfull! I'm no wiz but I've learned a lot.
You can't expect instant replies to your questions, and you can't expect answers to all of them.
You learn a little bit each week, and you eventually get the jist of it.
In the beginning I had to ask questions about everything, now I notice I can get most of the stuff that I want to do done by myself.

[leileilol]