Populist Features

[Baker]

They both do matter and don't matter. But mostly, they do.

A ton.

Identify the 12 real-world features that an average player really would like to have or admire. And then consider how many of these features are implementing in any engine (or progs.dat).

Quake isn't limited by modding efforts. We've never even been there (for the most part). And this is 2011.

I raise this topic solely for the purpose of illustrating the very limited nature of engine modding up to this point. I almost have to say "except Spike" to be honest [Spike has almost a curiously linear feature list in FTEQW].

[FrikaC]

I can't speak for Joe the Player.

Things I want are modding-centric because that's what I do. Things mappers want are mapper specific because that's what they do. Things QW players want are things that make their QW game more unfair..err...I mean 'fun'....yeah. Things engine coders want are crazy tech to make their engines stand out.

If Joe the Player wants features maybe he should go code them.

I don't say that to sound callous, but in my experience the Joe the Players of this world tend to want a more plain, less modded experience to begin with. I'm all about modification. But maybe I'm wrong. I'd like to hear your list.

[leileilol]

Besides the usual rendering fixes for getting the GL part up to Quake v1.00 visual standards (overbright, fullbrights, npo2, model light matrix dropped, waterwarp) i'd say, coming from a player perspective to streamline Quake:


1. Freelook enabled right off the bat through the menu. Death to autoexec.cfg +mlook workarounds

2. Reverse cycle weapon in the controls menu (jon camrack forgot to add this in 1.06)

3. An easy custom map picker

4. Fake CD tracks. Face it, red book is dying pal.

5. Less 'fatal errors'. Manage the damn memory and die it all to the console where possible.

6. More trusty window management. you don't want to run the engine to see it suddenly load some old config file to pull a fullscreen 640x480x16 on you while you multitask or test. Starting it unfocused could lead it to start in a window (like Unreal engines)

7. Positional audio. this is a highly underrated aspect in engine modding these days, one that is useful too. 5.1 support isn't hype.

8. Allow sv_aim to be 2 right through the menu. Not a lot of engines let you easily disable the autoaim by the interface.

9. Exploit drag and drop functionality for bsps and folders (to load as -game)

10. master server list picker, but done with legible built-in variable width fonts with margins so it's not looking like a big confusing mash of saved games.

13. rag doll face tech form hl2 beta to put in my cool psp game so i can win teh psp game macking contets

Fortunately most competent engines have most of these features.

What happened to QSB? Is it back to square one dead horse beatdown round 3 again?

[Baker]

[mh]

I actually went to a lot of effort to set DirectQ up as a "player-friendly" engine, but I believe that the term "Populist Features" covers maybe 3 main categories.

Stuff that acts as a barrier to new players

Face it, Quake has some poorly chosen defaults. Now, a lot of these may have been reasonable in 1996, but in 2011 many of them make zero sense whatsoever. +mlook, a tiny default heapsize, needing to use the console and command-line so much; these all can and should be addressed.

Thing is that a lot of people can look on this kind of thing with scorn. Experienced players who don't need it don't see the value in it. Others get the wrong end of the stick entirely - I had to go to considerable effort to explain to one person that the fact that you don't need to use the command line in DirectQ doesn't mean that I've removed the command-line. You'd almost think that some people want to assume the worst. Sheesh.

Every engine coder should read through some of the problems people have with using Quake for the first time on the QuakeSrc.org forums. These are the high-priority show-stoppers that should be fundamental features of every engine.

Value-added good stuff

A lot of the multiplayer features in ProQuake fall under this category. You don't actually need these to play the game, but having them enhances the experience a lot. This can also include SP stuff like auto-reloading your last save when you get killed.

Other things I see as belonging in here include the ability to record demos at any point in time, possibly JPEG screenshots, definitely showing a screenshot of the save point in the save/load menus, enhanced TAB completion, etc etc etc.

It's all "polish" in other words. Extra nice things that you don't need but that do bring benefit.

Gratuitous Junk

These are, I believe, the "crazy tech to make their engines stand out" things that FrikaC referred to. I've also seen them referred to as "engine faggotry" elsewhere. Leaving aside the fact that lumping everything that engine coders do into this category is mildly offensive, what do they include?

Half-Life BSP support is here. It seems popular, but going through the maps and mods list on Quaddicted, how many of them actually need HL BSP? Something like none?

I'd personally place enhanced particles, r_shadows and r_mirroralpha here too. In fact the latter two were firmly in this category in the original GLQuake; the former is just eye-candy that serves no purpose. It can be very nice eye-candy for sure, but it remains eye-candy. My "amazing revolving 3D HUD" thing that I used to do 6 or 7 years ago also goes here.

Sometimes a feature that's currently Gratuitous Junk moves up the list. If HL BSP started becoming widely used by mod teams it would become pretty damn essential. LIT files might be here, but if a mapper supplies a LIT file then you must work on the basis that using the LIT file gives you the mapper's intended look, so they're also in the essential features bucket.

[Baker]

[mh]

[Baker]

[leileilol]

[Spirit]

[r00k]

[goldenboy]

[Baker]

[Baker]

[mh]

Well Quake's default locations for stuff don't really correspond to where they should be on either Windows or Unix, but that's a legacy of the DOS days and I'd personally be reluctant to make such a radical change.

Screenshots - putting them in a "screenshots" subdir off the gamedir is as far as I'm willing to go, and it helps keep the game dir clean (same applies to save). I favour JPEG over PNG because I get this feeling that nowadays if anyone is going to take a screenshot the reason why - 9 times out of 10 - is going to be to upload it somewhere. (DirectQ still defaults to TGA because I suspect that even if following this logic there will always be someone who will complain.)

Neat idea on the config thing by the way; I've something similar that dumps out 3D card capabilities but I keep on forgetting to make use of it.

Defaults - I don't know. For an MP-only (or MP-primary) engine you can get away with defaults tuned for what most people would want for DM. The same counter-argument could be made for SP, and people who want to use a more general-purpose engine for either will complain if the defaults are tuned for the other. Seems a case of "when in doubt do what ID Quake did" to me.

You also need a robust way of getting around that "exec default.cfg" that runs at startup. Of course for new cvars you can pick whatever you want, and I think you'd want to be pretty far gone to make the argument that free look should not be enabled by default (the exception to "when in doubt..." occurs when "...what ID Quake did" is clearly and unambiguously crap from any perspective).