Comments on: The Lingering Legacy of id Software’s Quake: A Glimpse Into Thirteen Years Of Darkness

http://www.quaddicted.com/quake-nostalgia/the-lingering-legacy-of-id-software%e2%80%99s-quake-a-glimpse-into-thirteen-years-of-darkness/ The greatest Quake 1 Singleplayer site on this planet. Tue, 09 Aug 2011 22:15:18 +0000 hourly 1 By: Tronyn http://www.quaddicted.com/quake-nostalgia/the-lingering-legacy-of-id-software%e2%80%99s-quake-a-glimpse-into-thirteen-years-of-darkness/comment-page-1/#comment-2855 Tronyn Sun, 06 Feb 2011 04:52:42 +0000 http://www.quaddicted.com/?p=1094#comment-2855 I guess now is the time to say that I hate modern, invasive FPS design and appreciate post #25 more than ever. By: onetruepurple http://www.quaddicted.com/quake-nostalgia/the-lingering-legacy-of-id-software%e2%80%99s-quake-a-glimpse-into-thirteen-years-of-darkness/comment-page-1/#comment-2812 onetruepurple Fri, 21 Jan 2011 16:24:39 +0000 http://www.quaddicted.com/?p=1094#comment-2812 I'm one year late here, but I agree with Sajt's post 110% By: Baker http://www.quaddicted.com/quake-nostalgia/the-lingering-legacy-of-id-software%e2%80%99s-quake-a-glimpse-into-thirteen-years-of-darkness/comment-page-1/#comment-2293 Baker Tue, 26 Jan 2010 02:06:21 +0000 http://www.quaddicted.com/?p=1094#comment-2293 Sajt's analysis was a good read. By: Spirit http://www.quaddicted.com/quake-nostalgia/the-lingering-legacy-of-id-software%e2%80%99s-quake-a-glimpse-into-thirteen-years-of-darkness/comment-page-1/#comment-2292 Spirit Mon, 25 Jan 2010 15:49:09 +0000 http://www.quaddicted.com/?p=1094#comment-2292 Well, it clearly focuses on Singleplayer. ;) By: Valver http://www.quaddicted.com/quake-nostalgia/the-lingering-legacy-of-id-software%e2%80%99s-quake-a-glimpse-into-thirteen-years-of-darkness/comment-page-1/#comment-2291 Valver Mon, 25 Jan 2010 14:19:52 +0000 http://www.quaddicted.com/?p=1094#comment-2291 Interesting read, thanks from a long time Quake fan. But slightly suprised/dissapointed to see there's no mention of Team Fortress and the competitive class based gaming that then spawned. By: Ron http://www.quaddicted.com/quake-nostalgia/the-lingering-legacy-of-id-software%e2%80%99s-quake-a-glimpse-into-thirteen-years-of-darkness/comment-page-1/#comment-2289 Ron Sun, 24 Jan 2010 08:55:11 +0000 http://www.quaddicted.com/?p=1094#comment-2289 Good post, s_a_j_t. "It is its own world, rather than an imitation of ours." By: Ankh http://www.quaddicted.com/quake-nostalgia/the-lingering-legacy-of-id-software%e2%80%99s-quake-a-glimpse-into-thirteen-years-of-darkness/comment-page-1/#comment-2288 Ankh Sat, 23 Jan 2010 23:22:41 +0000 http://www.quaddicted.com/?p=1094#comment-2288 agree with s_a_j_t's post 100% By: s_a_j_t http://www.quaddicted.com/quake-nostalgia/the-lingering-legacy-of-id-software%e2%80%99s-quake-a-glimpse-into-thirteen-years-of-darkness/comment-page-1/#comment-2287 s_a_j_t Sat, 23 Jan 2010 16:29:53 +0000 http://www.quaddicted.com/?p=1094#comment-2287 > Carmack probably just wanted things “arcadish” as > he was mainly interested in the engine tech. In > retrospective, the vagueness was good, but still > somewhat of a lucky shot if you think about it. I'm pretty sure he had some views on game design which were much better than those of anyone else at the time (and especially now). After Quake3 he retired from putting his foot into game design because he got the idea that people didn't understand his design philosophies. So now we are left with insecure, ephemeral "high concept" story-driven crap from Mr. Willits, rather than solid, focused game-games. I might be putting words into his mouth here, because these are also my own views, but it seems to me that Carmack thinks the same way. He knew that a game needs focus. He took the "use" button out of Quake because it was extraneous. The gameplay coders weren't supposed to code anything that wouldn't be used multiple times (except bosses). So Quake seems simpler than Duke3D (with all its crazy one-off details) and Quake3 seems simpler than UT (also with its gazillion gimmicks). Quake has no NPCs, in fact Quake has basically no use of language at all. It doesn't need any of these things, and in fact, if you imagine Quake with a story, you're imagining a game that you certainly wouldn't still be playing today. Above all, a game needs to be comfortable in its own skin (that is, its technology). Quake looks unrealistic to modern eyes, but to me it's more believable than the modern games which try to look realistic, something they can't achieve, so they always looks like a bad parody (especially 5+ years after the game comes out). Quake will always look good because of the uniformity and consistency in detail, and the fact that it never seems like the game wishes it could do more. It is its own world, rather than an imitation of ours. ("The message is the environment" expresses my thoughts EXACTLY as well.) Carmack said a game needs a story like a porn movie needs a story, and it's true. Modern games (basically, Half-Life and everything since) are only lame imitations of B-movies with a bunch of filler added, rather than an exploration of a new medium. I guess their budgets are too big for them to be able to accept the fact that they are games. There are a lot of limitations still today for game designers. You can't do a believable "human interaction" simulator. You can't do dialogue without some kind of compromise which acts as a foggy window between the player and the game. You can't do games where the player is supposed to be able to do so much stuff that you'd need to bind every key on the keyboard to a different action (unless you're making a text adventure). So you might as well take what does work (one example being "click to shoot to kill") and design your gameplay mechanics around it, create an elegant, pared down system that operates totally within that sphere without trying to do what it can't. By: Tronyn http://www.quaddicted.com/quake-nostalgia/the-lingering-legacy-of-id-software%e2%80%99s-quake-a-glimpse-into-thirteen-years-of-darkness/comment-page-1/#comment-2286 Tronyn Sat, 23 Jan 2010 07:50:55 +0000 http://www.quaddicted.com/?p=1094#comment-2286 Always thought the GTA series was doing some interesting stuff, but equally (actually more so) thought it was an attention-whore (both popularly and, surprisingly, critically - perhaps because white academics realized all too soon that they were sorry for having neglected rap and associated culture for 30 years or so, not that getting "in touch" all too quickly made any amends for their own irrelevance. "USERS OF TAX MONEY EXPLAIN TO YOU THE CULTURAL RELEVANCE OF: EMINEM" could be the motto for why I hate the very fucking idea of "narrative studies." Christ..."Well, it's in my living room now; time to abandon Shakespeare..." Anyway... http://www.mythjournals.com/ Myth gives the player a vague role centring around some story that he/she has little or no control over and generally loses or almost loses. As a player you're somewhere out there as these crazy historical things (analogues: WW1, WW2) occur. Outside of any one person's control. The story is basically: You're in a war. Things need to happen. Wait a minute: did you contribute? Most of myth is inspired by The Black Company, a series of fantasy books based on, as Canadian author Steven Erkisson put it, "vietnam war fiction on peyote." A game, in which you often lose the missions and often don't see the relevance of these missions to the general plot, achieves this sense of being a lost soldier (wtf is high command even DOING) pretty well. lol. Quake is different though. "High command"?? "Things are rusty here." By: grahf http://www.quaddicted.com/quake-nostalgia/the-lingering-legacy-of-id-software%e2%80%99s-quake-a-glimpse-into-thirteen-years-of-darkness/comment-page-1/#comment-2285 grahf Sat, 23 Jan 2010 06:02:00 +0000 http://www.quaddicted.com/?p=1094#comment-2285 @Ron: I think Descent was actually the first true-3D game, if we want to nitpick. Wikipedia says it came out in 1995, whereas Quake was not released until 1996. Narrative in gaming: I think there are several types of narratives that games can tell. The most obvious, and perhaps the least exciting, is an explicit story driven narrative. Examples being the Metal Gear Solid series and most Japanese RPG's, it is like watching/playing an interactive movie. The experience is more or less linear. The second would be player driven narratives, such as Grand Theft Auto or Oblivion. You can explore and do whatever you want in the bounds of the open world, so the experience is nonlinear. The third kind, which I hadn't really thought of until Tronyn mentioned it, is what I might call the mental narrative. You make up what's going on in your head as you go along. Linearity or lack thereof is irrelevant. I haven't actually played the Myth series so I'm not sure where that falls. By: jdhack http://www.quaddicted.com/quake-nostalgia/the-lingering-legacy-of-id-software%e2%80%99s-quake-a-glimpse-into-thirteen-years-of-darkness/comment-page-1/#comment-2284 jdhack Fri, 22 Jan 2010 10:43:26 +0000 http://www.quaddicted.com/?p=1094#comment-2284 Archived version of the "Duke of Ontaranto" link - it is indeed fc1 (aka Ontranto): http://web.archive.org/web/20050315060237/http://www.planetquake.com/underworld/quakerev040717.html By: Ron http://www.quaddicted.com/quake-nostalgia/the-lingering-legacy-of-id-software%e2%80%99s-quake-a-glimpse-into-thirteen-years-of-darkness/comment-page-1/#comment-2283 Ron Fri, 22 Jan 2010 10:37:47 +0000 http://www.quaddicted.com/?p=1094#comment-2283 At the time there were also a lot of Duke Nukem fans. Some mods were made for that game too, but not that much, I think. If it had been a proper 3d game, it might have given Quake a bit more competition. I can't quite remember what the 2nd proper 3d game was. Half Life maybe ? By: negke http://www.quaddicted.com/quake-nostalgia/the-lingering-legacy-of-id-software%e2%80%99s-quake-a-glimpse-into-thirteen-years-of-darkness/comment-page-1/#comment-2282 negke Fri, 22 Jan 2010 10:25:58 +0000 http://www.quaddicted.com/?p=1094#comment-2282 Tronyn: j/k. 2010-15 then. ;) Carmack probably just wanted things "arcadish" as he was mainly interested in the engine tech. In retrospective, the vagueness was good, but still somewhat of a lucky shot if you think about it. By: Ron http://www.quaddicted.com/quake-nostalgia/the-lingering-legacy-of-id-software%e2%80%99s-quake-a-glimpse-into-thirteen-years-of-darkness/comment-page-1/#comment-2281 Ron Fri, 22 Jan 2010 09:28:22 +0000 http://www.quaddicted.com/?p=1094#comment-2281 Shit ! Played that already ... Thanks anyway. It seems to be called Duke of Ontaranto at http://quakeone.com/polls/456-best-expansion-episode-quake.html By: jakub http://www.quaddicted.com/quake-nostalgia/the-lingering-legacy-of-id-software%e2%80%99s-quake-a-glimpse-into-thirteen-years-of-darkness/comment-page-1/#comment-2280 jakub Fri, 22 Jan 2010 09:22:22 +0000 http://www.quaddicted.com/?p=1094#comment-2280 to ron: i've never heard about "duke of ontaranto", but there is mod with similar name: ontranto. link here: http://www.quaddicted.com/reviews/fc1.html